Dr. Kevin Roberts, the president of the Heritage Foundation, sparred with MSNBC hosts Saturday over issues related to a second Trump term and illegal migrants.

“The Weekend” co-host Symone Sanders-Townsend pressed Roberts over the Heritage Foundation’s perceived plan to start “institutionalizing Trumpism” as proposed in Project 2025, a series of conservative policy proposals for the administration of the federal government. Roberts denied the former Biden-Harris senior advisor’s claim that the plan was “cooked up specifically for the second coming of the Trump administration,” stating they “couldn’t do that” because the Heritage Foundation is “not partisan.” Roberts said he “would have been thrilled” if President Joe Biden “asked for a briefing.”

Roberts was then asked about “using the National Guard” to conduct deportations.

“First of all, we need to close the border,” before calling for “the biggest mass deportation system ever in the history of America because it is unjust and illegal and evil that more than 10 million illegal aliens have come to this country.” Roberts responded.

“It’s imperative that we send those people back. Invite them back to come through the legal system — we love immigrants at Heritage — but we also love the rule of law,” Roberts said.

“So, how do you plan to carry that out?” Sanders-Townsend asked. “Are you talking about going door-to-door ’cause that’s what — I mean, I can read from the plan — but I think— ”

“The first thing is that there’s going to be a lot of self-deportation. The interesting thing, as you no doubt know, is that simply talking about this and beginning to implement a plan — and President Trump deserves a lot of credit for talking about this — causes people to say, ‘I don’t want to run the risk of being arrested for doing something illegal.’”

Roberts added “there are great plans” using the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and that “even a majority of people on the political Left agree” with mass deportations because of the “damage” caused by the border crisis.

Sanders-Townsend then appeared to override co-host and former Republican National Committee (RNC) Chairman Michael Steele’s attempt to close out the segment, saying, “I think we want to take a couple more minutes,” despite being “called to wrap.”

“I’ll stay as long as you want,” Roberts remarked.

“So what do these people do? What are they doing now?” Steele asked Roberts.

“Which people?” Roberts asked.

“The folks, the 11 million, 20 million, whatever you wanna deport,” Steele clarified.

Roberts told Steele that “a lot of them are committing crimes” and referenced the alleged murder of Jocelyn Nungaray, 12, by two Venezuelan migrants in Houston. Nungaray’s body was found Monday.

“So that’s one, that’s one, out of 11 million,” Steele said. “What is, what is— ”

“We can take the remaining time of this segment and I can give you a lot of examples of this,” Roberts responded as Sanders-Townsend cut in with statistics.

Sanders-Townsend insisted she was “just giving the numbers,” prompting Roberts to challenge her to “tell that to the survivors of these people” whose family members were killed.

“What is the difference between an illegal immigrant who, unfortunately, engages in that activity?” Steele asked Roberts.

“And we don’t like that — I wanna be clear. We don’t use the term ‘illegal.’ Undocumented individuals,” Sanders-Townsend chimed in.

“That’s sweet. They’re illegal aliens,” Roberts said.

Roberts told Steele most illegal migrants “are not even making an attempt to be legal” when he asked for the number of illegal migrants committing crimes in the U.S. Sanders-Townsend quickly switched the topic to abortion after accusing Roberts of “weaponizing a horrific murder to smear 11 million people.”